The Igbos are mercenaries; they are there for sale. If the devil were to come today to say, I am the devil about whom the Bible and the Quran have spoken, I am prepared to give money, the Igbo will take the money and vote for him. Quote me!

This is the verdict of a Kano State delegate to the just concluded National Conference and convener of the Coalition of Northern Politicians, Academics, Professionals and Businessmen, Dr. Junaid Mohammed when he spoke in an interview with The Punch’s JOHN ALECHENU. He spoke on other national issues. Excerpts

You were once arrested by the State Security Service for a statement you made which it considered inciting. What do you make of your arrest?

It was true I was invited. That was the word they used. I was invited by the SSS to present myself at their Kano State office which is about one and half kilometres from my residence. Before I arrived Kano from Abuja, there were some shadowy characters who were following me. The order for my arrest came directly from the Director of Operations, an Igbo man. Apparently, he does not like anyone who says anything uncomplimentary about Igbo people and their greed. I think he was particularly very unhappy because I said Igbo have taken charge of the economy and that they have also grabbed most of the land especially for estates in Abuja; where they don’t have any historical claims or any other logical claim to even one square foot of land in Abuja. He was also unhappy because I said what was taken out of the North and converted into a national land holding is about two and half times the size of Lagos. I don’t see any Nigerian ethnic group, zone or region that could be prepared to cede that kind of virgin land in addition to the valuable mineral which is under the land. When I got there, some small boys started asking questions which I answered. I spent about half an hour and somehow; because of the many calls that were coming into my telephone from a number of media people and civil society groups, I think somehow they got a bit jittery and allowed me to go. That was what happened. I believe what was done was deliberate and it had the blessing of people in government at the highest level and those in the security services. It was done primarily with a lot of ethnic bias. I am aware that long before now, SSS had tried to get me arrested months before what happened. They even took my name to the office of the NSA and other people trying to frame me up for things I didn’t do because they said I was unhelpful and that I am a threat to the government of Goodluck Jonathan; I wish I were. Every patriotic Nigerian must do what he or she can do legally to constitute a threat to this government. This is the most irresponsible, most corrupt and the most incompetent government in the history of Nigeria. These are people who are not only tribalistic; they are also sectarian and they are very clannish. Their greed and stupidity is unprecedented in the history of Nigeria.

But people say you’re chronically tribalistic going by your statements on national issues.

I want them to tell me what makes me tribalistic, let them mention the statements they are referring to. If saying about 42 per cent of the key positions in the economic sector of Nigeria is dominated by Igbo, if that is what they call tribalism, then I stand by that tribalistic statement because these are verifiable facts and whenever I made that statement, I mentioned names and positions and institutions. For example, I said the most powerful person in this country is the Minister of Finance who is in fact, the de facto Prime Minister. What it means is that she is the de facto head of government. For a person who was not elected and the legitimacy of the government that appointed her still in doubt, anybody who thinks saying this is being tribalistic, so be it. They can burn to ashes and go to hell. Two, I said the Governor of the Central Bank of Nigeria is also an Igbo person, next I said the DG, Nigerian Economic Summit Group is an Igbo man, the DG, Sovereign Wealth Fund, is also an Igbo person, the DG, Securities and Exchange Commission is also an Igbo person, the DG, Manufacturers Association of Nigeria is also an Igbo person, other ministries which are very critical to the running of the economy like aviation, are also in the hands of Igbo people. So, what are we talking about? Igbo remains one ethnic group in Nigeria that is so devoid of any shame to show their greed, selfishness and contempt for other ethnic groups. I said and I will still say that the first time Igbo officers staged a coup and assassinated wholesale the political leaders of most other ethnic groups was when we had General Aguiyi Ironsi as the Supreme Commander of the Nigerian Armed Forces. He was involved in the coup where the entire political leadership, the military and economic leadership of other regions especially the North was decapitated under him and he was from Umuahia. The next time we had another Igbo man as Chief of Army Staff was at the height of the Boko Haram insurgency and that man was (Azubuike) Ihejirika, who also comes from the same Abia State, from the same Umuahia. So, if this is what they use to call me a tribalist, then they can go to hell.

Are you one of those who believe Northerners are born to rule and that a Northerner should be President in 2015?

I have never said a Northerner should rule Nigeria in 2015. There was never a time in my entire political career when I said a Northerner must govern or rule Nigeria under any circumstance. I will not dignify this question with an answer. Next question.

Why did you say that President Jonathan will not win a credible election in 2015?

Because he never won any election in the past. The election which brought him to power as number two to Umaru Yar’Adua was not a credible election. The election he was alleged to have won in 2011 was not credible and I don’t believe he could win any election if anybody is to vote rationally- by this I mean, if people are to vote for a man on the basis of his performance and that performance must tally with what he promised to do, there is no way-let me tell you, we have a saying in American English ‘at the end of the day, all politics is local.’ As far as I am concerned, if he is to be voted for without recourse to ethnicity and religious bias and people are to vote for him on the basis of performance, there is no reason why any part of this country should vote for him- apart from the mercenary Igbo and of course, the Ijaw who are opportunistic, they are the only people who will have occasion to vote for Jonathan. When I say Ijaw, I choose my words carefully because most of the people who got appointments in this government are Ijaw, not Kalabari, their cousins, not the people of Akwa Ibom whether they are Anang or Ibibio and not even the few other tribes who are not associated with Edwin Clark. None of them got anything. The Igbo are mercenaries; they are there for sale. If the devil were to come today to say, I am the devil about whom the Bible and the Quran have spoken, I am prepared to give money, the Igbo will take the money and vote for him. Quote me!

You once described President Jonathan as a bad president. Is it because he’s not a Northerner?

I knew Jonathan before most of you. I employed him and Chief Horsefall is alive. I employed him (Jonathan) as Assistant Director when I was a Federal Commissioner in OMPADEC in Port Harcourt. To be fair to President Jonathan, he has never denied me nor has he ever denied circumstances surrounding my employing him. If I hated him, why should I be the one who was instrumental in his getting a job as Assistant Director in OMPADEC? Two, I said he was a bad President but I never said he was a bad director of ecology because that was what I recommended and insisted he should be employed as and he was employed. I did not say he was good enough to be president but I said he was good enough to be director of ecology because he comes from an educationally disadvantaged area and that to me is important. I come from the North which is also educationally disadvantaged and I believe people who are underrepresented in such circumstances especially in the Federal Government institutions should be employed. I believe every Nigerian has a right to be given a sense of belonging and I believe one of the good aspects of a government is how inclusive it is so that every Nigerian should have a sense of belonging. I have never hated him and he himself has never said I hated him.

Some people say that you hate Igbo people, is that the case?

I have an Igbo daughter. I don’t see how I can hate my daughter. My daughter speaks better Igbo than Hausa. Nobody can make me hate my daughter. I also have a Yoruba daughter and I have an Ijaw daughter who is doing her Master’s degree at the University of Ghana, Legon. I don’t hate Igbo but I see no reason why I should spare them when they have done more damage to the psyche, to the sovereignty and the existence of Nigeria. Some of my closest friends for life are Igbo and one of them is Uche. S.G Ikoku is someone I regard as my political mentor even more than the late Aminu Kano-as far as I am concerned, and he was an Igboman. I can tell you many more. I have never associated with other Nigerians (who are either majority or minorities) who have accused me of being a tribalist.

You have said a lot about the 1966 coup, where some northern leaders were killed. What about the killing of Igbo in the North, weren’t you bothered about that too?

I have always said that tit for tat killing is not a characteristic of human beings. I have always said that an eye for an eye is not a way of running a society. If you continue an eye for an eye, at the end of the day, the world will be blind. I am not a believer in an eye for an eye and I never believed that what the Igbo did which was purely on tribal basis, politically motivated-it was also motivated by tribal hatred- was right. Even if what they did was deliberate; I believe it was deliberate. The frenzy which somehow took over the North was wrong because I believe there was a way in which that issue would have been handled differently in a much more humane and sensible manner. That is number one. Number two, when you look at what happened during and after the Igbo coup and the action of the Igbo, you don’t justify what happened, but you have to agree that the Igbo themselves contributed to the severity of what happened after their own tribal coup because I was alive and well and I knew what the Igbo were saying afterwards. They were showing photographs of the Sardauna and saying we killed your father. I saw that, in addition and if you look at the long term consequences of the Igbo coup and the civil war afterwards, you will notice that first and foremost, the North treated the Igbo much more humanely, much more honestly and as fellow citizens than the rest of the country. My first job in government in 1968/69 was as an abandoned properties officer in Sabon Gari, Kano. At that time and up till now, Sabon Gari is one of the most developed parts of Kano metropolis. When I finished my assignment and had to leave for the Soviet Union, I handed over to another person. The sum total of what I am saying is that not a single Igboman can claim that he came back to Kano and that his house or property was alienated. Every Igboman who came back got his property back and I challenge any Igboman to tell me that he came back to Kano or any part of the North for that matter and he found that his land had been taken from him or his house or his market stall or anything of that nature. I can give you an example of a good friend of mine, Prof. ABC Nwosu who was formerly Political Adviser to former President Olusegun Obasanjo and later Minister of Health during the first term of Obasanjo’s administration. He was the one telling me and he is alive- he said but for the houses his father left in Kano which he recovered completely when he came back, he and six of his brothers would never have gone to school. You can crosscheck this with ABC Nwosu. If I hate Igbo, he will not tell me that. He is a good friend of mine and Governor Sule Lamido; fact must be fact.

You said that Gen. Buhari is not fit to rule Nigeria again. Do you have any other Northerner in mind who will offer good leadership to Nigeria?

Where and when did I say that? I never said that.

You said that the PDP cannot win the presidential election in 2015. What will you do if the party wins?

There will be mayhem. The party cannot win a free and fair election. It is not beyond it to connive with Attahiru Jega the way they did in 2011. And if they do that, there will be mayhem.

Why do you think that Abuja should go with the North if Nigeria divides? Is Abuja not central to the country?

Abuja has been and remains central to Nigeria but it is also central to the North. In creating Abuja, not one square foot of the other regions was incorporated into Abuja. In fact, 80 per cent of the whole land of Abuja came from Niger State. The remaining 20 per cent came from the northern states of Kaduna and a small fraction of Nasarawa when it was part of Plateau. How can you then say if Nigerians decide to go their separate ways, Abuja will remain central? I have said it before that if you draw a straight line from Abuja southwards, you will have to go over 351,000 kilometres before you reach the end of the North. That is where the border will be in case of a break-up. I invite you and the Igbo irredentists and all the historical revisionists to see what happened recently when the North and South Sudan split. The North retained Khartoum. The stretch from Khartoum to the border is more than the distance between Abuja and Okpila. Even Okpila where you have the cement factory is originally Igbira land and if we want to reacquire it, we will re-acquire it, it is Northern land. If Nigeria was to break up, Abuja will not only remain a northern territory, it will also remain the capital of a new Nigeria. It will be unfortunate, but there is no alternative. If Nigeria were to break up tomorrow, the North with Abuja as capital will acquire all the assets and liabilities of Abuja.

Many think if President Goodluck Jonathan wins in next year’s poll, the current Boko Haram crisis will not subside. Do you share this fear?

I believe that this government is involved with Boko Haram directly and indirectly with some of the terrorists in the Niger Delta. Anybody who believes that there is a direct connection knows that this Boko Haram insurgency is not coming out of the blues; it is being financed indirectly or directly by the government. If as they tried to do during the (Peter) Odili tenure in Rivers, to encourage people to unleash violence and after the election, they abandon them, those people will take up arms and unleash terror on them. The fact is this, government is irredeemably corrupt and incompetent.

Do you think that negotiation is the key to curtailing the Boko Haram crisis in the North-East?

Who are you going to negotiate with? Modu Ali Sheriff, Asari Dokubo, Edwin Clark or the President himself who are all implicated? How do you talk about stopping armed robbery with a confirmed armed robber?

You seem not to see many good things about the administration of President Goodluck Jonathan. What is your rating of his administration?

I am sorry to say and I hope that I don’t sound too negative, I challenge anyone who has anything positive to tell me. The first responsibility of any government is the maintenance of law and order, is there law and order in Nigeria today? No. One of the first promises made by this President was that he was going to get rid of corruption, has he done that? He promised he was going to get rid of poverty, the poverty level has risen beyond belief. Tell me what he has done about infrastructure? On a daily basis, I spend more on petrol than I pay on a monthly basis for my entire NEPA bill. I live in a small bungalow, my bill has been in excess of N2,000 for the past six months, I have not paid more than that. And there is no water, no major state in Nigeria has reliable water supply. And the Igbo who have been running the ministry of aviation have taken it upon themselves to deny other airports particularly Kano Airport of commercial venture. They want to destroy the airport as a commercial venture, they have refused other airlines who had expressed interest in coming to Kano. Starting with Stella Odua and now Osita Chidoka, I challenge those who say Jonathan has performed to tell me what he has done in terms of what he claims he would do. [myad]