Speaking to news men covering the Presidency on a number of issues yesterday, August 5, Atiku Bagudu noted that developing countries have generally been worried about conspiracy from the western world.

“Historically, Amilcar Cabral and Walter araodney and others have always been worried about effect of foreign actors and more so, we are not alone.

“There is still a raging debate in the United States which is more advanced than us as to whether the Russians have influenced their elections. We have seen the intrusion of the social media which we don’t control. So there is suspicion because of the way the world is evolving, one cannot dismiss such suspicion.

“But what is even worrisome is that the response that you don’t see in other countries… as we speak Greece has suspended payment to anybody who has money deposit in banks but yet we don’t have people who are saying let us create a… they will wait for election circle, that is the beauty of democracy.”

Governor Atiku Bagudu said that the beauty of democracy which Nigeria had embraced is that it afforded the citizens to continually changing none performing elected leaders, adding: “we have seen it happened working, where people who are in offices and who ought to be elected have been defeated.”

Parts of the extracts from the interview are reproduced here:

As chairman of APC Governors’ Forum, what is your reaction on the call by some groups for a revolution?

Any call for disorder in a democratic setting is condemnable because the democracy as the saying goes is not the best form of government but it is the best that we have, because it gives opportunity periodically for the electorates to exercise their mandate in affirming or rejecting leaders.

We have just come through a general election in march this year where Nigerians embraced the leadership of President Muhammadu Buhari and he has been elected for a second term with a little more votes than he had in 2015. Also State Governors were elected in different states, a lot of them second timers and a number of them first timers. Interestingly enough, we have seen all kinds of democratic outcomes which hitherto we have thought differently, particularly in a democratic setting.

We have first termers defeating second termers and in the case of one state, the supreme court exercising their rights as the highest court in the land to determine what should be and it is respected by the government.

So, to celebrate the evolution of our democracy, we are progressing from one mandate to the other. In the last few years, Nigeria has faced economic downturn which has been occasioned by changes in global economy.  In 2008 the world began to witness recession which affected many countries and in 2011, Nigeria had a wage increase so you have economic downturn in the world and you have a wage increase which is commendable but the effect of the two continue to hit hard and then in 2014, we also had another economic crisis.

So the money available to government fell dramatically, so the money available for us to police our country provide for the welfare of our citizens has reduced significantly.

The oil prices plunged from about $140 per barrel to as little as $27 per barrel. Let us all be cognizant of the fact that democracy fares in a demanding society, every elected representative whether councilor state chairman of local government, House of Assembly, Federal House of Reps and Senate, Deputy Governor or Governor and Vice President or President, whenever you go around your constituency, you are going to face more demand for governmental services which in other forms of government would not be so, this also add to the pressure to do more.

Therefore we are doing more with little, but in spite of lower governmental revenue, Nigeria has a huge progressive policies by the government of President Muhammadu Buhari. We have recovered from recession in the shortest possible time, in spite of the lower revenue, infrastructural work are taking place in various part of the country, even those that have been inherited by the administration are taking place.

Rail-lines are being constructed, second Niger bridge is being constructed, infrastructural work across the entire six geopolitical zones are taking place, power is improving steadily, it is very frustrating because we have a challenge in the privatization, but in terms of provision for more output or programmes that are being undertaken to ensure power availability are taking place. We have done very well in agriculture, interestingly I saw Mr President today and I was telling him happily how I witnessed the first millet crop of the season and he was very excited. Food prices have been coming down steadily over the last 18months even though the farmers will like to see interventions that will protect their income.

So these are all positive outcomes, social intervention programmes are expanding but part of the frustration by some people relates to the size of our economy and to illustrate that size, most economies use the example of Brazil, a country with a population of about 210million and Nigeria with a population of about 200million.

But the Brazilian budget of 2019 is $657billion compared to Nigeria’s budget of under $30billion dollars. This is not a fault of one particular administration, this is the size of our economy, should we be taking risks, maybe we should take the risks countries like Brazil took to get to that kind of level. Even in the west African countries, the size of our budget is small. South Africa with much less population has a budget close to a $100billion dollar, we can see that the size of our economy matters. Secondly, our ability to get support from the rest of the world, particularly in economic downturn is limited by the fact that we are a sub Saharan nation. A good example is Greece received support from the European union in excess of Euro300billion, that is not a sum of money any African country can get.

We are a bigger population, bigger economy but we don’t receive such money. Ireland, another European nation get support from the European union to get them out of economic crisis in excess of Euro200billion. Nigeria is not so lucky, we have not received support of Euros10billion but ofcourse we have borrowed more, we have issued Eurobond.

So it’s important we contextualize our frustration and our economic population is growing in spite of all the achievement, we remain a smaller economy than we wish to be. Rather than getting angry, is to embrace the measures that are being put in place to reposition the economy so that we will take our place of pride among comity of nation.

It is very impressive that we have recovered from recession that companies are coming into Nigeria and are investing, new factories are coming up, maybe not quick enough for those who are feeling angry but in a global world we are competing with other countries. If we give the impression that we are angry with each other, that will even scare investors. Its for people to appreciate that yes there have been challenge but for the credibility of Mr President, the track records of the last four years is giving confidence.

One of the biggest challenges faced by our country is security, even though pocket of it remains, but in the main Boko Haram has been contained in terms of their ability to hold territory.  Yes other forms of crimes have grown, these are a function of our limitation in economic size which I believe if we embrace the policies, which some states and communities have done we will continue to record more growth, and we will wait for the next circle of election.

Is it right that protesters have been scared away from doing what they believe in?

Its wrong for people to protest in a democratic setting, moreso we have institutions that has been created to express discontent and once people take up the law to their hands rather than expressing it through the right channel. We all have representatives why don’t they go in front of the House or office of their representatives so that they can raise the point and demands, so that their representatives whether councilor, House of Assembly or National Assembly members but where people decided to take the law into their hands, other people whose peaceful conduct is being affected are entitled to be protected and to the extent that it involves authority showing restraint and that did not go out of hand it is the proper thing to do.

What approach are you applying to Kebbi which is making it free of security challenges?

I am not boasting because there is a popular Hausa saying that ‘if you see the beard of your neigbour on fire, get water and keep it close to you.’ That we are better than other states is not even a happy thing because the security of Kebbi is linked to the security of every part of Nigeria, so what we want to see is peaceful. But the issue is how is it that some state are better than others, maybe that is the lesson. Maybe some state economic opportunities are more, some have more investment opportunities but the general message as President Muhammadu Buhari has always said, for you to have a peaceful society, we have to focus on the need of every member of the society and that is what is being done in social investment programmes, that is what is being done to farmers, fishermen, pastoralists in Kebbi state we embraced that together with effective electoral, traditional institution, community leaders, religious leaders, we have focused on security issues on a non-divisive way. For us crime is crime.

Whoever commit crime it doesn’t matter his ethnicity, he or she ought to be condemned as such and ought to be dealt with as a criminal. The systematic understanding of these issues is what cause conflict, the media should focus on these as well.

Some states have accepted to make land available for Ruga, what is your position on that?

It is unfortunate that Ruga has generated the controversy that it did because to begin with, Ruga is not a Fulani word or Hausa word, it’s an acronym which means Rural Grazing Area, it is an acronym given to Nigeria by its colonialists. We have since that time appreciated that there are users of land for economic activities that involve movement, it is better to help them. Since then, stay in one place, provide water for them, veterinary services, schools and hospital to better their lot. Their children can attend school and benefit from government like other communities.

If you go to any state with significant Fulani population, the places where Fulani live are largely called Ruga. Like in Kebbi we have over 3000 Rugas, they are very small settlements. I as the state governor, I am doing the bit that I can to provide water, schools, veterinary services, primary healthcare in those settlements and the more you do that, the yield per animal increases, they live better lives and you have less conflict within the state.

The federal government did not request any state to provide land for Ruga, I am not aware of it. The federal government requested states that have Fulani settlement like Kebbi to indicate how much support they want so that we can have more hospital, water, veterinary services, school in those places.

Like I have said, I have over 3000 Ruga settlements in kebbi state, so the whole N12billion that has been thought of if you give it to kebbi state, we will use it for less than 1000 Rugas. So I think it is a very commendable initiative and as part of our national food security initiative, national prosperity, we should support all economic initiatives.

Once we achieve less movement, some of the conflict causing behavior will lessen and I think that is the big lesson.